Friday, November 21, 2008
The death penalty - and Baby P
I've been meaning to blog on this topic for a while now, and I've finally decided to jump on it and do so. In fact, I've been meaning to blog about it from before the Baby P story broke, but I think it's even more important now.As you may have noticed, here in the UK, there has been enormous outcry at the death of a 3 year old baby known as "Baby P" at the hands of his parents, from terrible injuries. And that outcry has come, unsurprisingly, from people with small children: people like us. That's understandable, and no cause for alarm: there should be an outcry, as this should not have happened. However, it goes beyond that. There are calls for the death penalty for those responsible: or at least for the death penalty to be available to people who commit such crimes. A number of my friends on Facebook have signed up to groups advocating this, and similar. And I can see why. But I believe this to be fundamentally wrong: I passionately believe that we should not have the death penalty.
My reasons are many, and I'm going to try to lay them out here. Interestingly, I think, few of them are based on faith or theology. I realise that my general approach to ethical issues is a Christian one, but I don't think that this is a question that needs Christianity - or other faith - to be invoked in order to decide it. Why, then, should we not have the death penalty?
- The very top reason is that it brutalises. The ability to call for the death penalty allows us to dip deep into the animal part of us and ignore the rational, the thinking, the loving. And I would ask the question: "do you want your children to grow up in a society where violence is punished with violence?"
- It's not a deterrent, in many cases. Crimes that are, in other countries, punishable by the death penalty are not those which are avoided by thinking "oh, I might get the death penalty for this: I won't do it, then"
- It's unjust. It is the economically, socially, academically and intellectually disadvantaged who are by far the most likely to receive the death penalty
- It's unjust (2). In criminal organisations, it is those on the ground, the lowest in the chain, who are most likely to receive the death penalty: they're more likely to get caught, they're less likely to get off (see above), and they're more likely to have committed the actual crime themselves, rather than having ordered it
- It's truly a one-way ticket. Mistakes are made: history is littered with them. People who have been found guilty, received the death penalty, and have then been found not to have committed the crime. A confession is no guarantee, either: confessions can be forced, and some people confess because they want to die, even if they haven't committed the crime
- It's a betrayal. I believe that people have fought - and died - to leave us with a society where we have the opportunity to be decent, honest and just. The death penalty is none of those, and by lowering ourselves to the level of those who commit the crimes that are believed to merit it, we betray those people who have come before us.
Labels: children, death, ethics, love
Comments:
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My BA dissertation was on this very subject as a response to Anne Widdecombe statements about re-instatement. My research and my conviction conclude to a big
'No' to the possibility. I believe that all are redeemable, regardless of crime and does not represent anything that Jesus stands for. Sentence them for long sentences by all means, and then let the true judge do His bit. From a Prison Chaplain
'No' to the possibility. I believe that all are redeemable, regardless of crime and does not represent anything that Jesus stands for. Sentence them for long sentences by all means, and then let the true judge do His bit. From a Prison Chaplain
Yes, all are redeemable and indeed, in a civilised society, the point of punishment as well as to protect the public, is to reform the guilty. Once they have been executed, how can they be reformed?
I also agree with you, Mike. Recently TES (I think) ran a survey among teachers which asked for views on the reinstatement of corporal punishment in schools; shockingly, a high percentage of respondents (22%, from memory) felt that this would be a good thing.
Their view is, no doubt, influenced by a "something must be done" mindset. I associate this way of thinking with tabloids like the Daily Mail, etc. An assumption is made that a drastic remedy will be a cure-all for a *perceived* increase in social ills - of whatever sort - or that, because things were better (cough, cough) in the "good old days", and there was corporal (and capital) punishment then, all will be well if it's restored now.
What surprises me is that these views develop within educated communities. I don't include readers of the Mail in this group, obviously...
Their view is, no doubt, influenced by a "something must be done" mindset. I associate this way of thinking with tabloids like the Daily Mail, etc. An assumption is made that a drastic remedy will be a cure-all for a *perceived* increase in social ills - of whatever sort - or that, because things were better (cough, cough) in the "good old days", and there was corporal (and capital) punishment then, all will be well if it's restored now.
What surprises me is that these views develop within educated communities. I don't include readers of the Mail in this group, obviously...
Would anyone admit to reading the Daily Mail? Ever?
(Actually I've just been on their website...but it's because they've run a "shock, horror story" about cycling to school. Honest.)
(Actually I've just been on their website...but it's because they've run a "shock, horror story" about cycling to school. Honest.)
I don't agree with any of the above!
These "THINGS" that tortured that poor little boy should go through the same pain that baby "P" went through, they do not deserve to have a second chance or the chance to "redeem" themselves.
Baby "P" will never have that second chance so those who took his innocent life should not either.
The reason the crime rate is so high is because we are to soft when giving punishment, bring back hanging and harder punishments and im sure the crime rate would drop!
Im sure all your reactions would be different if this was your child you were talking about or a child very close to you.
These "THINGS" that tortured that poor little boy should go through the same pain that baby "P" went through, they do not deserve to have a second chance or the chance to "redeem" themselves.
Baby "P" will never have that second chance so those who took his innocent life should not either.
The reason the crime rate is so high is because we are to soft when giving punishment, bring back hanging and harder punishments and im sure the crime rate would drop!
Im sure all your reactions would be different if this was your child you were talking about or a child very close to you.
# posted by 
: 10:20 pm
: 10:20 pm
Were there fewer crimes when punishments were harsher, "Anonymous"? Actually, I'll answer that for you. The answer is "no".
I would like to say that I can not believe you are all talking about this in such a way that you seem to be on the abusers side, I can't understand how James could say that in a civilised society we should give these people a chance to redeem themselves, if this was a 'civilised society' surely crimes like this should not be happening?
In such a world that we live in at the moment we should deal with things in a hard a proper fashion and do it once and do it right, if we imprison these evil, foul people and give them games consoles and TV and 3 meals a day then what are we actually saying to them? Well what we are saying is, do a vicious, horrid crime go to prison and we will look after you and 'we' the taxpayer will pay for a life of comfort for you.
You all seriously need to look at this outside of your comfy homes and realise that this is happening on YOUR door step and YOU should stand up and be firm so this should never EVER happen again.
Simon D, happy to take on your views if you can prove it with facts, by simply answering 'no' is obviously biased to your view.
In such a world that we live in at the moment we should deal with things in a hard a proper fashion and do it once and do it right, if we imprison these evil, foul people and give them games consoles and TV and 3 meals a day then what are we actually saying to them? Well what we are saying is, do a vicious, horrid crime go to prison and we will look after you and 'we' the taxpayer will pay for a life of comfort for you.
You all seriously need to look at this outside of your comfy homes and realise that this is happening on YOUR door step and YOU should stand up and be firm so this should never EVER happen again.
Simon D, happy to take on your views if you can prove it with facts, by simply answering 'no' is obviously biased to your view.
# posted by : 8:36 pm
: 8:36 pm
Anonymous -
Please look at my my recent post on this: I've put some more thoughts down, and I'll respond to your latest comment there, so that it's all in one place.
-Mike.
Please look at my my recent post on this: I've put some more thoughts down, and I'll respond to your latest comment there, so that it's all in one place.
-Mike.
As Sally said "Well said Mike".
I am a South African now living and working in the UK for the next few years. I mention this as the issue of the death penalty has lived with me for most of my life, SA being at one time the capital punishment world leader. For all the reasons you gave Mike, I 48 years ago made a personal decision to not support capital punishment. It lead to some strong reactions from people in all the years that followed but I was very pleasantly surprised at how many came to share my view when we sat down and calmly looked at the issue and did not tie it to a current criminal outrage. It may be wise not to try and debate this while trying to deal with either the trauma of Baby P or the current one of the father who systematically raped his daughters over 25 years.
One last comment from me. I will never respond to any who wants to be called 'anonymous' as I have always been prepared to discuss this issue "face to face". SHALOM! Douglas
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I am a South African now living and working in the UK for the next few years. I mention this as the issue of the death penalty has lived with me for most of my life, SA being at one time the capital punishment world leader. For all the reasons you gave Mike, I 48 years ago made a personal decision to not support capital punishment. It lead to some strong reactions from people in all the years that followed but I was very pleasantly surprised at how many came to share my view when we sat down and calmly looked at the issue and did not tie it to a current criminal outrage. It may be wise not to try and debate this while trying to deal with either the trauma of Baby P or the current one of the father who systematically raped his daughters over 25 years.
One last comment from me. I will never respond to any who wants to be called 'anonymous' as I have always been prepared to discuss this issue "face to face". SHALOM! Douglas
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